718 Cayman GT4 was a bit underwhelming
Discussion
Well I test drove a 718 Cayman GT4 PDK today with bucket seat, leather interior and LED PDLS, carrera white with reverse parking camera and folding mirrors and about 4000 miles on the odometer
When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring.
When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better
The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better
In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before)
The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation)
When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring.
When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better
The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better
In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before)
The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation)
Edited by LamedonM on Saturday 14th January 21:22
I have a 981 GT4 that admittedly doesn’t get anywhere close to enough use and a 718 Cayman 2.5 GTS. The 718 is an excellent all rounder, it does everything well and is probably quicker than the GT4 in most scenarios. I’ve never felt the need to upgrade to a 718 GT4. I think with a good remap and possibly a cat back exhaust the GTS is all the car I’ll ever need unless a GT4RS becomes available and being honest the only way I’m likely to get one of them is if it ends up on Copart.
And yet I will likely buy a McLaren before summer.
And yet I will likely buy a McLaren before summer.
No real surprise here. The PPF equipped cars do sound really crap compared to no PPF cars. The overwhelming sound in a GT4 is belt noise and intake noise. I have these 3 in the fleet at the moment and it’s a very interesting comparison.
Quickest and most lairy the M2C.
Best chassis the GT4
Nicest car the R.
The R has the best engine noise and the nicest steering. Not as quick as the other 2 but so nice to drive.
The R is a massively underrated car.
Quickest and most lairy the M2C.
Best chassis the GT4
Nicest car the R.
The R has the best engine noise and the nicest steering. Not as quick as the other 2 but so nice to drive.
The R is a massively underrated car.
LamedonM said:
Does 987.1 Cayman S close to Cayman R in terms of engine sound and steering feel. I know of the bore -scoring issue.
Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S.Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30
bigmowley said:
Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S.
I was under the impression the R exhaust was a bigger bore diameter on standard and PSE. Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30
Marc_Hill said:
bigmowley said:
Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S.
I was under the impression the R exhaust was a bigger bore diameter on standard and PSE. Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30
So speaking as a current 718 GT4 driver and formerly 981 GT4, I can understand OP impressions from the quick road test.
718 GT4 is pretty polished/refined and well behaved on the road and so if you aren’t in an environment to really drive it dynamically (not the same as fast!) then you aren’t going to get much back from it and it’s just going to look back at you as just rather inadequate, lol.
981 GT4 gives up some of its goods sooner, as it is more rough and ready out of the box, with its characteristics and foibles on display and it sounds fantastic and fruity from the off.
718 GT4 is pretty polished/refined and well behaved on the road and so if you aren’t in an environment to really drive it dynamically (not the same as fast!) then you aren’t going to get much back from it and it’s just going to look back at you as just rather inadequate, lol.
981 GT4 gives up some of its goods sooner, as it is more rough and ready out of the box, with its characteristics and foibles on display and it sounds fantastic and fruity from the off.
Edited by TDT on Saturday 14th January 23:21
LamedonM said:
the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring.
I don't think it does explain that. So many other variables, particularly at the Ring.Drivers' experience, skills, attitude to risk, tyres etc etc are far far more prevalent than a little difference in straight line performance, if any in this case.
I bought a 718 GT4 for the handling characteristics and naturally aspirated engine throttle response, plus a manual 'box for interaction. Being the fastest out there isn't what the car, or I, am about.
It sounds like you prefer turbo power characteristics and/or outright speed? The GT4 isn't really going to cut it if so.
It sounds like you prefer turbo power characteristics and/or outright speed? The GT4 isn't really going to cut it if so.
LamedonM said:
n12maser said:
718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6'
Try:
- 997 GT3
- 991 GT3 (either generation)
- any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled)
So for the famed flat 6 engine sound, go GT3Try:
- 997 GT3
- 991 GT3 (either generation)
- any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled)
Really depends what sort of flat 6 sound you like. Induction noise or external exhaust.
991.2 GT3 has way more induction noise across the rev range inside the cabin than the 991.1. Neither have a particularly iconic Porsche external exhaust noise if thats what you want. Same with the gpf 718 GT4 great induction noise but stock exhaust external noise is nothing special.
981 GT4 sounds good and authentic sound overall despite its Carrera S engine both internal and external and sounds better imo than the 981 Spyder which in sport plus mode at least makes the external exhaust over farty imo but some like this.
LamedonM said:
Well I test drove a 718 Cayman GT4 PDK today with bucket seat, leather interior and LED PDLS, carrera white with reverse parking camera and folding mirrors and about 4000 miles on the odometer
When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring.
When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better
The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better
In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before)
The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation)
My 2p FWIW...When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring.
When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better
The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better
In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before)
The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation)
Edited by LamedonM on Saturday 14th January 21:22
Just arrived home with the missus from a day out in my mine (same as you test drove i.e, PDK, Buckets, Extended leather, PDLS+ etc, but a '22 build (see below)), 250 miles blasting across West/East Sussex A/B roads, down to the coast for a coffee, before heading back up & across the long way home! I can't share your feelings I'm afraid... I've come back with the smile firmly planted on my face with a reminder how great the car is, after it's been laid up over the Xmas period.
Not sure if you're aware but unofficially there are 2x OPF arrangements on the 718 GT4. Was the car you drove a 2019/2020/202 build? They made changes to the OPF arrangement at the end of 21, so cars built in 22 onwards sound much louder/raspier. Sure not as loud as a 981GT4 but much louder than the previous 19/20/21 GT4s. Rumour has it they took their GPF learnings from the 992 GT3 and implemented to the 4. There's loads of vids on YouTube with people comparing, and although Porsche have not officially confirmed, the difference is very noticeable. The cabin noise up in the revs is lovely and you can hear/feel the noise off the flat 6 but more of an induction feel than exhaus), especially in PDK sport mode (see below) which means it's always 'on'. I'm assuming you pressed and had the exhaust button 'on' as well?
I leave my PASM in normal, and apart from very bumpy/pothole surfaces it rides perfectly. 'Sport' PASM mode is way too harsh for British A/B roads it unsettles the car, which is why Porsche say it's recommended for Track use only. The balance, handling and steering wheel feedback is sublime, and really what makes the car. If you want outright speed this isn't the car for you (but its' hardly slow!), but if you want turn-in feedback and handling you will struggle to find better. The buckets give it an extra element of feedback through your arse in the twists, inspiring more confidence for you to push on.
The important button in a PDK, is the 'PDK Sport' button, this totally changes the behaviour of the engine/car, and there is no way on earth the car can be considered slow with that mode on. Whatever gear you are in, you can nail it and it takes off with a jolt and urgency. On the way back I had a safe & respectful 'play' with a 987.2 S who really struggled to keep up with me as we blasted through the twisties, up & over the gradients of Devil's Dyke.
It sounds as if you possibly had the car in the wrong modes, and didn't have enough time to explore it properly. Against a 2.5, I'm sorry but there's really no competition, not unless you are actually benchmarking using Carwow drag videos, which IMO are totally not what these cars are about.
As we hit Brighton to grab a coffee to take the seafront for a break before heading back, on the high-street the car turned heads with plenty of thumbs up from dads and kids alike. But that might be because it's green! I didn't have one negative experience which surprised me given Brighton is very 'left' and anti-car.
It'll never have the same character as a GT3, but that's good for me, it's different from a 3 as an all round package to give smiles per mile and to feel special, IMO I don't think there is a better car for the money.
Gratuitous coffee-break pics as we waited for the shower to pass...
Edited by kmpowell on Sunday 15th January 17:09
n12maser said:
718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6'
Try:
- 997 GT3
- 991 GT3 (either generation)
- any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled)
You forgot to add 996.1 Manthey Try:
- 997 GT3
- 991 GT3 (either generation)
- any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled)
987.1 Cayman S also has a great combination of induction and exhaust sound...the induction part was lost in the 987.2 DFI's
Edited by Andyoz on Sunday 15th January 16:44
Twinfan said:
I'm not convinced re. exhaust changes for model years. Changing the parts would mean having to get the car re-certified for emissions and noise would it not?
Can't see that happening.
I’m not sure when the PDK became available but I’m sure Porsche would have recert’d the manual at the same time therefore could have done the exhaust change then? Can't see that happening.
Who knows?
FTW said:
I’m not sure when the PDK became available but I’m sure Porsche would have recert’d the manual at the same time therefore could have done the exhaust change then?
Who knows?
I think this is correct. As there is definitely a change in the later MY cars - coincidence with PDK introduction would make sense for a bunch of changes like this, because they changed how the exhaust is mounted at this same time also.Who knows?
The change is not massive - but is apparent if you know what these cars sound like... its not life changing and not anywhere near former glory of cars that are pre-opf or have twin central exit, but might sounds better to some ears - if just loudness = better lol.
Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 17:42
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