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Author Topic: Tannoy Revolution R3  (Read 4795 times)
JohnLex
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« on: May 28, 2022, 02:04:10 PM »

I bought a pair of 2003 Tannoy Revolution R3 speakers this week. I stumbled across these on gumtree for £110 and after a quick search the only thing I could find was these reviews..

https://www.hifidatabase.com/Tannoy_Revolution%20R3_5112.php

http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/tannoy/revolution-r3.html?p=3

On the back of these reviews I went to take a look. I've never had floorstanders and the reviews suggest a compatibility with my preferred listening material.  On listening through his Naim amp and CD there was no distortion from any drivers and the sound was good enough for me to see and hear enough potential for a nice change of direction. Much better condition than the ad photo's revealed and had a good talk with the seller, . Even though the market price suggests these are worth much more the seller then generously offered them for £90 !  shocked .. due to a modification that needs some attention and a slight mark on one of the cones. We agreed to meet half way on a price of £100  I think that was a win-win.

The original owner has looked after these and the overall condition and cherry veneer is quite lovely and included the original boxes. The owner had wanted to use these close to a wall and so had repositioned the rear firing bass port and placed it in the top of the cabinet. I'm not sure how this would affect the overall performance but I am going to return the port to it's designed location and the top now needs to be filled and finished, although I am unsure exactly how I will execute this repair or what I will do as far as the veneering goes, I am considering the options....

The mdf measures 21mm inc veneer and I could cut a plug from a bamboo chopping board and wood glue or epoxy into place then consider a veneer over the whole top .....
Or use the original cutout plug and glue and fill ?..... See pic as example..... any advice and opinions on this repair would be gratefully received.....

The cab seems to be quite well made and is interesting as the interior is faced with a real wood veneer of 4mm. there are some cavaties between the veneers where the bracing struts divide the cab also small gaps down the edges and I am considering filling these areas with wood filler. Any advice or opinions as to improvements that could improve these cabs?

I intend to fill the bottom section cavity which is approx 29cm deep and I guess will hold 5KG with either lead shot or volcanic sand.... Again, user experiences of these materials and opinions?

The BAF stuffing weights 233g I am considering replacing this with natural wool, again, any advices on this appreciated.

The crossovers look to be in good condition but whilst this is on the table It might be worth my considering any improvements and advice on this. I have no knowledge or experience of how to make an assessment or plan for improvements to this fascinating technical area. I'm all ears???  smiley















This is the plug taken from the top and used to cap the original rear port I could refit and fill..... ?












« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 02:59:49 PM by JohnLex » Logged

John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2022, 03:34:23 PM »

They look great, John, and for £100 I suspect that they'll work out well.


The original owner has looked after these and the overall condition and cherry veneer is quite lovely and included the original boxes. The owner had wanted to use these close to a wall and so had repositioned the rear firing bass port and placed it in the top of the cabinet. I'm not sure how this would affect the overall performance but I am going to return the port to it's designed location and the top now needs to be filled and finished, although I am unsure exactly how I will execute this repair or what I will do as far as the veneering goes, I am considering the options....

The mdf measures 21mm inc veneer and I could cut a plug from a bamboo chopping board and wood glue or epoxy into place then consider a veneer over the whole top .....
Or use the original cutout plug and glue and fill ?..... See pic as example..... any advice and opinions on this repair would be gratefully received.....


I looked at this thread earlier and, while making sawdust in the garage, an idea struck me.  Glue the old core plugs back in with some sort of epoxy or resin, making sure that they aren't proud above the top.  Then, take a template and get 2 bits of opaque black toughened glass cut to shape and edge polished.  There's probably other colours of glass to choose from, as it's used a lot in kitchen splash-backs.  Stick the glass to the top with double sided tape (or something more permanent) and you'll have a neat looking finish that's immune to coffee mug stains.  You could veneer it of course, but getting an exact match might be tricky.

Good luck  icon_thumright
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Dave
JohnLex
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2022, 06:18:55 PM »

They look great, John, and for £100 I suspect that they'll work out well.

I looked at this thread earlier and, while making sawdust in the garage, an idea struck me.  Glue the old core plugs back in with some sort of epoxy or resin, making sure that they aren't proud above the top.  Then, take a template and get 2 bits of opaque black toughened glass cut to shape and edge polished.  There's probably other colours of glass to choose from, as it's used a lot in kitchen splash-backs.  Stick the glass to the top with double sided tape (or something more permanent) and you'll have a neat looking finish that's immune to coffee mug stains.  You could veneer it of course, but getting an exact match might be tricky.

Good luck  icon_thumright

Thanks Dave, Good idea. I don't think that I would be able to get a veneer to match let alone manage a good finish. ATM I'm churning ideas and the glass is good design idea. I am also considering a carbon fibre veneer as a similar function to cover the repair ..... Coffee cups on speakers.... Unthinkable! laugh

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John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
jon
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2022, 08:45:48 PM »

Rather than glue, and if your wood working skills are up to it! Create a recess in the area, slide your glass plate in. It can then be removed easily for cleaning.

Bit like the JBL L300 concept.
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Please let me build a system that is a bit forgiving on what I find in thrift shops for a handful of pennies and still is able to deliver the goods on good pressings.

(Syncopeter)
Colin_EJJ
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2022, 12:44:41 PM »

Those look like a good find. They're a reflex, so what goes on inside the cabinet is important. The BAF wadding will damp midrange resonances and leave the bass untouched, which is what you want. The only thing we've found which beats it is Twaron Angel Hair. But it's very fine stuff so it would be worth getting a light mesh bag to put it in before putting it inside the speaker (eBay and Amazon sell light laundry bags which work well for this).

Wool tends to work at bass frequencies, so may not be ideal for these, and may also upset the reflex tuning by increasing the apparent interior volume that the driver 'sees'.

Hope that's of some help. Good luck with them.
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2022, 02:06:02 PM »

If you want to improve the crossovers replace the ferrite cored inductors with air core inductors - easy to wind yourself.

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JohnLex
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2022, 08:11:01 PM »

Thanks for your input chaps.

Rather than glue, and if your wood working skills are up to it! Create a recess in the area, slide your glass plate in. It can then be removed easily for cleaning.

Bit like the JBL L300 concept.

That looks interesting in that execution Jon. Although, TBH, I don't posses the woodworking skills to begin cutting channels and I would be lying if I said that I was prepared to put that much effort into the job.  laugh I am thinking of a simple CD sized 5" carbon fibre disc to cover the mess..... That will retain most of the lovely veneered top with a little twist to create both a visual contrast in materials and shapes and might create a visual intrigue without looking too out of place? I hope....  undecided


Those look like a good find. They're a reflex, so what goes on inside the cabinet is important. The BAF wadding will damp midrange resonances and leave the bass untouched, which is what you want. The only thing we've found which beats it is Twaron Angel Hair. But it's very fine stuff so it would be worth getting a light mesh bag to put it in before putting it inside the speaker (eBay and Amazon sell light laundry bags which work well for this).

Wool tends to work at bass frequencies, so may not be ideal for these, and may also upset the reflex tuning by increasing the apparent interior volume that the driver 'sees'.

Hope that's of some help. Good luck with them.

Thanks Colin, Very helpful indeed. I'm not finding anything other than the links I posted so every contribution is most welcome. The Angel hair is very interesting because I was looking at cashmere wool and although it may not work as effectively as Twaron it's nice to know that my thinking was blindly heading in the right direction  Roll Eyes. The quantities suggested are a little vague and could easily triple the price on a guestimate.  3-10 gm per litre @ 24 litre. The BAF weighs 233 so a little under 10g per litre. According to Mundorf they claim that 10-20% of comparable BAF is the required ammount. Would it be likely that these cabs will require more than 100g each?  I appreciate that this is not a reasonable question to put to you, but.... experience really is priceless.  angel

Would it be detrimental to fill the small gaps inside where the bracing meets the rear internal veneer with Ronseal high performance wood filler to make the rear face comletely flat, or will any interference with the cab complicate the performance?  I am considering painting the 'chipboard' braces and the top of the sand/shot box  with non shrinking cellulose dope to stiffen them. ...... or.....Am I just digging myself into a hole of amateur enthusiasm and ignorance?  grin laugh

I am looking at things where the manufacturer builds to cost, and a little more can yield a better performance..... angel

If you want to improve the crossovers replace the ferrite cored inductors with air core inductors - easy to wind yourself.


I've listed the component values of all but the inductors which give no indication of anything. I can't find any schematic or threads elsewhere. I want to spend a little more on better components but I'm stumped by these things despite reading around. I'm out of my depth on these as a simple part number is absent so I'd be gratefull for any advice on where to go with these.....  laugh You might want to keep it clean  wink
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John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2022, 09:39:58 PM »

The inductors will have to be removed from the board and tested with an LCR meter or oscilloscope.  LCR meters are cheap to buy.
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awkwardbydesign
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2022, 11:23:18 PM »

If you want to improve the crossovers replace the ferrite cored inductors with air core inductors - easy to wind yourself.
But make sure the DC resistance is pretty similar.  Which would mean thinner wire (lower power handling), or lots of thicker wire (expensive).
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2022, 04:13:08 PM »

Ask Falcon Acoustics or Wilmslow - they'll be able to advise on upgrading the crossover, if it's necessary. Falcon have been known to advise to leave well alone when existing components work well.
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JohnLex
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2022, 05:58:32 PM »

Ask Falcon Acoustics or Wilmslow - they'll be able to advise on upgrading the crossover, if it's necessary. Falcon have been known to advise to leave well alone when existing components work well.

Thanks Colin. I've been reading around and have come across similar advice regarding changing the inductors. Considering my limited knowledge. It makes sense to actually talk with an expert in the field....(pun  laugh) There are probably more suitable forums for this project.  smiley
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John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
JohnLex
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2022, 06:59:49 PM »

The inductors will have to be removed from the board and tested with an LCR meter or oscilloscope.  LCR meters are cheap to buy.

I reckon that the starting point for a reliable and accurate LCR is a Peak LCR45 and the best price I can find for this is £85.00. I was looking at a budget of IRO £80 per,  on parts.  Roll Eyes  I reckon I need to take Colin's advice and get on the phone or I'll end up laying out £300 on a wing and a prayer....  laugh
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John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2022, 08:38:57 PM »

Another possible source of advice for crossovers is Paul at Reference Fidelity Components.  He works with high end Tannoys, builds crossovers and was very helpful to me when I was restoring the Wharfedales.  You got a bargain with the speakers so don’t want to spend ££££ on bits unless you really need them.
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Dave
JohnLex
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2022, 12:46:26 AM »

Another possible source of advice for crossovers is Paul at Reference Fidelity Components.  He works with high end Tannoys, builds crossovers and was very helpful to me when I was restoring the Wharfedales.  You got a bargain with the speakers so don’t want to spend ££££ on bits unless you really need them.

Thanks Dave,  This thread is all part of the planning process so as I said initially, all suggestions and contributions are welcome. I think it is a major positive when a business is crystal clear in cautioning the inexperienced enthusiast...

This quote from the website has confirmed my concerns.

 "Please note: The advent of internet Hifi Forums has resulted in a lot of MISINFORMATION on crossover design being spread, often from well meaning but misguided sources. Please be aware that unless you have extensive knowledge and experience in crossover design and measurement of acoustic response, you run a serious risk of ruining your ‘speaker’s performance by attempting to tweak your crossovers or otherwise by copying generic type circuits."

https://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/services/loudspeaker-services/

 
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John.
"He (John Coltrane) was playing at a little club called McKees, and I got there early to see Elvin Jones nailing his drum kit to the floor....." Terry Callier.
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2022, 03:59:39 PM »

" There are probably more suitable forums for this project."



Actually you may find this one is much more likely to stop you wandering outside your comfort zone. I've seen some horrors on other forums where at the first sight of a commercial crossover PCB, the armchair experts wade in and recommend throwing everything out and replacing all the components with hand-wound, oil-soaked capacitors assembled by the light of the August moon at vast expense. Everyone appears to be far more level-headed here.
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